What Happened to Doreen Virtue?

What Happened To Doreen Virtue – Angel Cards And Christianity?

What happened to Doreen Virtue? A friend recently told me that Hay House maven Doreen Virtue had denounced her previous existence as the doyen of intuitive card decks, even her Angel Cards, and had reinvented herself as a bible bearing Christian. So I set out to investigate. The internet was in uproar. Christians were delighting that such a famous New Age celebrity had denounced the devils work and converted to a path of what happened to doreen virtue angel cards and christianityrighteousness. Hard core tarot card readers and fans were upset and angry; they felt used and abandoned. I watched the now infamous video and this is where I ended up.

Doreen Virtue Stopped Using Tarot And Card Decks

What Doreen Virtue said in her video was that she had stopped using her own card decks or indeed any card decks. She said that she should never have created her Ascended Masters deck because that was not how they wished us to connect with them. Dr. Virtue has nothing against card decks per se, her problem was more how they were being used. She had been using them as a proxy for communicating directly with God and she had realized this was not correct for her.

I did a podcast episode about card decks not so long ago entitled “How to Use Tarot Cards.” As opposed to being an instruction guide for using cards, it was meant to be more about how to approach it in general. I have to say I agree with most of what Doreen Virtue said. The power is not within the object. The power is inside you. So if you are using your tarot as though the deck is the oracle itself then in my opinion you are misguided. If you have memorized the book that came with your deck then you are using your intellect and not your intuition.

Card decks can be a great tool to help people bypass their intellect and access the intuition. If you are looking at the symbols and pictures and translating them into meaning in the context of the present moment and the person being read then you are using your cards as a doorway to your higher knowing. Many people can’t access their intuition easily due to their intellectual programming. Starting with a card deck can be a gentle introduction to intuition and may be less frustrating for the student than trying to access it directly. This is why I created my Portico cards.

Another perspective is certain people having a psychic reading are not in control of their energy. As they are curious about what will be said they project their energy into the third eye of the reader. As someone who reads from trance without objects of any kind, I can tell you this can be extremely painful and uncomfortable. So it has to be managed energetically. For readers who do not know techniques for that having a card deck can attract the readees invasive energy onto the card deck instead of into the readers head as the readee believes that is where the power lies.

What Happened To Doreen Virtue – Christianity And New Age Beliefs

The reason Christians and New Agers dislike each other so much is based on misunderstandings about each other. As well as misinterpretation of doctrine that bears no resemblance to the ancient spiritual teachings of our human heritage or to universal spiritual laws.

As someone who originally trained in the spiritual arts at a Psychic Christian church I believe I have a unique perspective on this. My training including clairvoyant reading of the bible to access the essence of the teachings, which have been translated and mistranslated through many languages, were copied by hand over and over before the invention of the printing press and tweaked by various self-interested parties for political gain. Some of the essence was lost.

 

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Not only that much of the original teachings were encoded, symbolic, metaphors and parables to preserve the information for followers and protect it from foes. It was never meant to be taken literally. What I learned from my time in psychic seminary was that the bible discusses energy healing and spiritual abilities at length. Far from being the work of the devil these were gifts from God that we can use to communicate as spirit and to receive guidance.

The foundation of all religions is love. The message of all great teachers is love thy neighbor as thyself. We are all unique aspects of God and were given freedom to express our unique perspective on Earth. When we allow ourselves to connect through love we can accept each other as unique expressions of divine consciousness and not judge, fear and seek to control.

What Happened To Doreen Virtue  – What Does Doreen Virtue Say About Jesus And The Bible?

This may horrify some people, but I am going to say it anyway. Jesus was a healer and a psychic. Like Doreen Virtue he is one of my favorite teachers. I consult him often in my work and I ask for his guidance. He never refuses me and is delighted to help. Also like Doreen Virtue I am usually careful about whom I tell this too. A fundamental Christian would say I was a blasphemer. A new age follower might cringe at the mention of his name.

doreen virtue had a visitation from jesusHe doesn’t look at all like most of the paintings and movie portrayals by the way.

Jesus life and many of the books in the New Testament provide a road map for life on Earth. Far from being a prediction of our demise, the Book of Revelations tells you all you need to know about operating consciously as spirit in a human body. Many of the books in the Old Testament are historical. When read clairvoyantly reveal a history quite different to what you learned at school and are replete with giants, genetics, aliens living on Earth, spaceships and more.

Being psychic and believing in Jesus and the bible are not mutually exclusive. I embrace both and Doreen Virtue shouldn’t have to choose between them.

One other thing Doreen Virtue mentioned about her visitation from Christ was that she knew in that moment that he was THE son of God. I would like to hear more from her about that. Jesus is the son of God and I believe his message was that we are all children of God. In other words we are all projections of source. We are all aspects of God incarnate. Jesus realized he was. He awakened as divine consciousness within a body and mastered being a spiritual presence on Earth. We too can be enlightened if we follow his guidance; or the teachings of other masters.

What Happened To Doreen VirtueThe Doreen Virtue Conversion To Christianity

The story is that she has always been a Christian, but was not always comfortable expressing this in public for fear of alienating part of her fan base. This comes from Doreen Virtue’s Jesus video on the web.

Until one day while attending a Church service, she had a visitation from Jesus. He encouraged her to be true to herself, live a more authentic life and to stop using her angel cards as a form of idol worship.

Doreen Virtue has undergone an image change over the last few years. She has changed her appearance from glittering angelic siren to mother Mary in blue. It may be that she decided to age gracefully or stop dying her hair for health reasons. But could it be she was moving toward her new public persona all along? One may wonder what Michael Robinson Doreen Virtue’s husband thinks about the whole scenario.

When I look at what happened to Doreen Virtue and the transition what I see is her becoming more grounded. The angelic persona was a fit when she was not grounded and spent more time out of her body communing with angels and other spirits. As she got more in touch with her body, the planet and, the creatures of the earth she got more grounded and more present within her body. So the current Doreen Virtue is more earthy and in a sense more real, more human, less perfect.

 

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Another change is she is avoiding doing psychic readings, including her famous Doreen Virtue Weekly Reading and Angel Message For Today, and says now she prefers to pray and study the bible. I am concerned that this will cause a further schism in the psychic Christian divergence. For me both are ways of communicating as spirit. Praying is communication with God. When I read I am communicating with God. I read from trance, a meditative state which allows me to tune out the physical world and tune into spiritual reality. I can ask questions, ask for help and receive my answers. This is probably what Doreen is doing when she prays. She probably also reads the bible intuitively by asking God for deeper insights into its meaning.

What Happened To Doreen Virtue – Is Doreen Virtue Profiting From Turning To Christianity?

Doreen Virtue had told Hay House that she no longer wished to profit from her intuitive card decks, like her Archangel Oracle Cards a 45-card deck and guidebook, and instructed them to give her royalties to charity and if new decks were printed to remove her name from them as she no longer wished to endorse them. This is a real turnabout for a most prolific creator of card decks. Currently Hay House lists 36 card decks with her name on them. The number could be higher if there are some already out of print. Her books, some of which are, Angel Therapy, Archangels And Ascended Masters A Guide, Angel Therapy, are best sellers. One may wonder what will happen to Doreen Virtue net worth and will it matter to her.

On hearing what happened to Doreen Virtue all this one cynical blogger put forward the following opinion. “Perhaps Doreen Virtues sales have been declining and this is an attempt to create controversy to get noticed again. It might stimulate a rush on her old products before they are no longer available. She becomes a limited commodity.”

Then of course the new persona piques curiosity from her existing fan base and attention from a massive new audience – the Christian community. In this projected future reality, a new throng of followers is created and flocks to her new YouTube channel; a captive audience for her new Christian focused products. Whether this happens remains to be seen. I believe she will write more books; it’s is in her soul, but they will be different ones that will attract a new audience.

Is it contrived? Not necessarily.

a look at doreen virtue clairvoyantly What Happened To Doreen VirtueA Healing And Psychic Reading For Doreen Virtue

When I look at Doreen Virtue clairvoyantly right now this is what I see:

A tremendous amount of attention has been piled on top of her. Her main vibration is a healing blue. But she looks grey as she is covered in foreign energy such as expectations and judgment from others. She feels overwhelmed and is tired of it because it blocks her clear communication with God. The situation is bringing up an opportunity for some inner healing. I am seeing some shame, some regret; a desire to be authentic and understood, but a question about whether that is even possible. I see her struggling internally but genuinely turning to God for answers; being humbled by her transformation. She is retreating from the unwanted attention that comes not only from the new age fan base. It’s also from the Christians who judge her past behavior and who want to shovel their doctrine onto her rather than leave her be to develop her own answers.

So I administer a healing. I help her clear her connection with God and the planet. I run Christ Force energy through her space and ask Jesus to help. Together we clear the foreign energy off. Her vibration increases. The main vibration changes from blue to yellow. She feels relief, release, freedom and joy. She feels closer to God.

My name is Rev. Dr. Lesley Phillips – I am a child of God.

Her name is Doreen Virtue Ph.D. – she is my sister.

What happened to Doreen Virtue? Her name like yours is written on the skein of time and space – Doreen and you too are a divine portion of the cosmic whole.

Namaste.

You can also join us on Unlocking Your Truth, my call in radio show where we discuss “Everything Metaphysical” as well as answer your questions and even do readings right on air. It is aired every Tuesday evening 7-8pm (Pacific time) on CIVL 101.7FM in the Fraser Valley or you can live stream us on CIVL.ca

 

If you enjoyed this article, What Happened to Doreen Virtue?, please let us know… simply send us an email, info@drlesleyphillips.com

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Other Relevant Posts That You May Find Interesting :

Am I A Psychic Medium – UYT029

Past Life Readings and Akashic Records FAQ’s

 

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23 Responses to What Happened to Doreen Virtue?

  1. Peter October 5, 2017 at 10:35 pm #

    Fantastic review! I didn’t know about Doreen’s change in path. I just read some people’s comments about her. Yikes, there’s some pretty low vibration being created and sent her way! Your review, on the other hand, is very understanding/non-judgemental and well thought out. Thanks for your info on Jesus and the bible too.

    • Dr Lesley October 13, 2017 at 3:54 pm #

      You are welcome – I am glad you enjoyed reading it!

  2. Ellen Auchter October 7, 2017 at 11:14 am #

    That’s interesting that you saw a gray light around her. Someone else was telling me that she got so besieged by people wanting something from her that she got exhausted. I can believe, but I would’ve rather she took a vacation and regrouped than become a born-again Christian!

    • Dr Lesley October 13, 2017 at 3:57 pm #

      Yes – she has so many followers – that is a lot of energy to deal with. Then now with a lot of those people being unhappy about her changes & directing their displeasure at her – she’s dealing with a lot.

    • Desiree Stephanie Kramer April 27, 2018 at 8:38 pm #

      Did you see that Doreen Virtue went from praising how wonderful Hay House was no matter what lies or harm came out of there when she was making bank via them . Then they dropped her Dec 2017 after she after a mass simony event with them Dec 2017 was exposed for having judged psychics & mediums as being rejected by God.

      She blamed the new age itself for why her book Archangels & Ascended Master was a problem .. the new age people were taking it wrong in the Aug 2017 Bancarz video.
      That video Bancarz put out telling new age people in the description that it was her denouncing the new age ,

      Feb 2018 Virtue came in a frequently asked questions video & came out saying she had never denounced the new age.. never used those words , another in a in interview said those words & it caused problems .. It was only Bancarz who did that of the few people she had given interviews to after her so called conversion.

      Bancarz promotes the Doreen Virtue Jesus conversion story based on her Real Jesus Jan 2017 story though he has had delivered to him the published Jesus testimony Doreen Virtue published 2016 claiming she had a visitation with Jesus, Mary & 3rd figure as 17 yr old girl in a bedroom & was born again then & Virtue when this started to be shared took down that story but it was captured via the wayback machine , her echo of that story was published by Hay House Heal your life website 2016 under her name , & that same story was presented in the Doreen Virtue nde April 2017 video that she had up for only a short period but others reposted when her Jesus story was found to have changed . In that video she also falsely seems to tell the public that in her divorce from Steven Farmer that he got all the property & money which is not how divorce works in the state of CA.

      Virtue has been exposed as not living in 1,000 sq foot postage stamp property as she put out in a video April 2017 during the time period she was illegally soliticitng donations for her unregistered rescue ranch . That home is an over 20,000 deluxe property with 7 bedrooms & baths . Vegans did a video on this titled Doreen Virtue a Plea for Justice .

      Virtue went on to do a mass simony event with Hay House while she played at being a Christian mystic though the Bible forbids simony . She & Hay House took hundreds of people in Australia via her Angel intuitive scheme early Dec 2017 where all attending were certified as angel intuitive for giving money & showing up . Her buddy Steven Bancarz was challenged by Desiree Krautkramer with Lisa Eddy tagged on the twitter conversation to press for Doreen Virtue & Hay House to return all monies from the event as none can buy a gift of God.. Bancarz replied Virtue did not owe the new age people swindled anything but truth & Jesus.

      Virtue was exposed by her former student Lisa Eddy for having had started the Church of Divine Guidance formally in Hawaii .

      It was seemingly exposed by Lisa Eddy that Doreen Virtue’s artist who painted her custom vision art work of her Jan 2017 Jesus vision may have lifted the body of the image right off a Time Magazine cover & once that info was brought into the public forum Virtue stopped plugging the sale of that image to her fans.

      Lisa Eddy exposed that while Virtue was claiming poverty she owned numerous properties around the US. This was found via a background check of properties owned by Doreen Virtue including a recently purchased almost 1 million dollar mega home in the state of WA. Virtue came out saying she picked to move to WA state for they have no income tax & her father who she supports via money exploited via new age people vetoed other locations. He lives with her .

      Virtue mentioned Aug 2017 Bancarz live stream that she had low vibration entities attached to her at her baptism in her Bancarz video . It was nothing he seemed to massively responded to ..

      April 2018 on new Bancarz live stream she was positioning she was demon possessed psychic slave girl of Hay House & event producers & that in the new age she had been possessed by a python demon. While Virtue by her approximation would be declaring she made almost all her Hay House products while demonically possessed she keeps taking royalities from Hay House .She told Bancarz she is behind in taxes & Michael David Robinson her partner told her it would take approx 1 – 2 yrs to pay that off . She said she might not take royalties after that ..

      She in 2017 had told fans she was going to sell all she had to follow Jesus. On the Bancarz live stream she said she had to support her parents & her kids ( who are adult children over 30) so she can’t live in a tiny apartment thus why she lives in her almost million dollar Mansion ?

      Virtue sold her certification classes to students stating they would be listed on her Angel Therapy page as graduate of the various programs. Then she recently though she was still certifying people as recently as Dec 2017 took down the student referral list with no warning . Students who have noticed are upset but have no where to turn. The Fairyologist course people have started to notice & are seemingly upset. That course was highly sold to her fans Spring /Summer 2017 as buy it & all the money would go to support rescue ranch animals.

  3. Nancy Norvell October 13, 2017 at 4:09 pm #

    Dear Dr. Lesley – I just finished your article on Doreen. Thank you! I’ve enjoyed her cards and books & look forward to continuing to enjoy them. I feel she was true to who she was at the moment she wrote her books & designed her cards. I accept her current view point as it does not change the spark of the divine she carries in her soul. I send her love & light on her new journey.

  4. Raywyn Erickson October 13, 2017 at 4:17 pm #

    WOW … I am just catching up on emails and read your long article on “What happened to Doreen Virtue?” I was curious as I did not know and have a deck of her cards in my car which someone gave to me recently. I have enjoyed her work over the years. You did an amazing job in your article, Bless You!! Yes, it is amazing how much confusion and mixed messages are out there, for sure. I recently facilitated a class at the First United Spiritualist Church … grass roots information and found a letter from my Aunt in NZ written in 1993 in which she reported my Sister had told her I belonged to Science of Mind, a Spiritualist Church and she told me Spiritualism is not Christian … I ask you!!
    I am so glad I have learned enough to understand and embrace wholeness and oneness

  5. dont be like mike December 24, 2017 at 8:47 am #

    Doreens problem is her boyfriend Mikael robinson——they are not married
    what kind of man takes his girlfriends exhusbands name as his own.
    Mikael is an unhappy man that tries to control everything around Doreen,
    the trouble with that is he is an idiot and can not .
    Mikael has destroyed Doreen

    • Cathy March 1, 2018 at 11:06 am #

      I agree with you 100% A man who takes his wife’s name is a total pussy. Especially when it is her ex-husbands. What a wus. I bet he lives off of her too. I bet she pays all of the bills. She is a crook too. I used to be a big new ager but not so much now as I have become disgusted by the money grabbing displayed by the “spiritual” people. I think the best words to describe the new age movement is “dolphins and money.” Many new agers are floating on the ceiling.

      • Dr Lesley March 4, 2018 at 11:42 am #

        Thanks for sharing your perspective Cathy – my goal is to help people learn how to be grounded so they don’t “float to the ceiling” and also to help them use their sixth chakra so they can have their own unique perspective and clarity…

      • Jenna April 29, 2018 at 7:59 am #

        Cathy, I have to assume that your comment came from a completely reactive and conditioned space, because if examined mindfully and with awareness, no human being would say such a thing, and especially a woman. Why in the world do we accept that men have to take our names, and that is normal, yet a man taking a woman’s name is not? Sadly, this is a perfect example of how deep the patriarchal conditioning goes.

        And by the way, not all cultures accept the woman taking the man’s name, so if you can look beyond your own cultural conditioning you will see that there is a whole world out there where both sexes equally decide on what name will be used, as well as cultures that prioritize the woman’s name.

  6. Lisa Frideborg Eddy February 11, 2018 at 6:01 am #

    Hi Lesley, sorry but you missed a big portion out about what happened after Doreen went public with denouncing her old teachings in this article so I don’t feel it represents what truly happened. She has gaslighted students and blocked them from student forums for simply asking questions, without refunding them even though many of them asked repeatedly after being excluded from the forums without any explanation whatsoever.

    It’s lovely that you wish her well and send her healing but many of those who were refused refunds after losing their access to student forums for just asking questions about her new path want financial recompensation and accountability. Instead she has gaslighted these people in public by referring to them as being ‘used by lower energy’ – Talk about spiritual abuse!

    People also want accountability for what happened with her rescue ranch which she used to solicit for donations illegally from her following. She has done a lot to try to hide the trail of lies around this. I managed to reinstate one of the articles that went missing you can read it here: http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/2017/06/20/north-hawaii-news/a-peaceful-animal-kingdom-local-couple-rescues-animals-in-need/ Don’t miss out on reading the comments below the article.

    Doreen is now busy perpetuating the lie about how she was too poor to keep the rescue ranch. People who are in the know claim she owns ten properties and still earn millions in royalties annually. Yes, she’s had to take a pay cut since her conversion but that hardly justifies poor mouthing for the pity vote with her following.

    I’m sorry but I think the grey you saw probably goes under the blue, bless her.

    I am one of the people who bought a DV course on the promise that the fee sponsored the rescue animals in their forever home and I have been fighting hard to get to the bottom of this. Thankfully, many who have inside info have come to my aid. I hope you will change your article to reflect the truth after you do a bit more research.

    Thank you.

    Lisa

  7. Dl March 4, 2018 at 3:22 pm #

    Well Doreen can preach to the choir saying she is guided by Jesus, when in fact she can’t even obey His command about not remarrying if any previous spouses are alive! Even if she married after being saved, like the biblical story of the woman at the well married five times, she told her to stop sinning.

    One may divorce in cases of abuse, adultery etc. but not remarry. What is DV on, her 5th marriage? And if not married to Michael, they are living in adultery, leading other Christians to feel it ok to do. If she is married to Michael, in Gods eyes it is still
    Adultery! Whether one agrees and believes or not, doesn’t change Jesus’ words!

    She is a fraud as many Christians are… Saying they have visions of God and Jesus, yet live their life opposite to Scriptures. She made millions on her cards etc., and exhausted the system, so now she’s using Jesus to make money and so many blind Christians don’t even see it, but then again, many of them don’t do as Jesus instructed either, and make every excuse under the sun as to why, while trying to justify what they do. Didn’t Jesus say everyone would know His true followers by their fruits… The fruits of instruction & wisdom He gave them? Well, Doreen can say shar loves Jesus all she wants to, but she is not following His instruction!

  8. Rik April 5, 2018 at 10:19 pm #

    Doreen’s conversion was very surprising. She had done some earlier work collaborating on the audio version of The Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard. Gary’s book helped many people understand A Course in Miracles which is the real message that Jesus wanted to convey to the world, not what the current Bible and Christian religions are perpetuating. I thought she understood Jesus’ real message.

  9. Sally Smith April 17, 2018 at 7:51 pm #

    This whole Doreen Virtue thing is strange. I’ve never really resonated with Doreen to begin with. Denouncing one’s past is like saying part of my life’s journey has been wrong and I definitely disagree. There’s a fear vibe about this whole thing with that old-time Christian right-wrong/good-bad/heaven/hell way of thinking. Change-growth-evolution-expansion-more are the mantras of the Universe. Trying to keep the world from that, as religion attempts to do, goes against natural laws. But oh well, that is an interesting path she is on and I wish her well.

    • Muh May 3, 2018 at 6:57 pm #

      Sally, ever think that you just have a bias against Christians (being that you named-called and just mocked us).

  10. Amber April 22, 2018 at 11:42 am #

    Hi Dr. Lesley,

    I’m just curious about your training how are the teachings different from mainstream Christian teachings? It sounds like the activities generally associated with being a psychic and the teachings from the bible are not compatible for example in Deuteronomy 18:10-13 For example, never sacrifice your son or daughter as a burnt offering. And do not let your people practice fortune-telling, or use sorcery, or interpret omens, or engage in witchcraft, or cast spells, or function as mediums or psychics, or call forth the spirits of the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord. It is because the other nations have done these detestable things that the Lord your God will drive them out ahead of you. But you must be blameless before the Lord your God.
    Granted if you have been engaged or practiced these things there is always forgiveness through Jesus Christ but I dont think that condones the practices listed above. I dont mean this as an attack on your beliefs im really just wondering about your foundational teachings as a psychic christian. On your comment about us being children of God and how all of us are essentially projections of source. We as humans are the image bearers of God, as his image bearers we should reflect his attributes its because of sin that we fail to do this sin separates us from God. Jesus did not come to earth and awaken or become enlightened. He being the creator of all things emptied himself and came to earth as man and lived a sinless life to reconcile us all to God. He is not an ascended master or teacher of spiritual ideologies he is literally Lord of everything. He loves us and has paid a great price for people who may or may not ever recognize him as Lord. I think your beliefs on the authenticity of the bible are not founded we can not pick and choose what is true and what is not based on what we are comfortable with. Lastly, it may just be a typo in your article but the book of the bible “Revelation” is just that Revelation not Revelations. Im sure you will not allow this question/comment posted because my views differ highly than what your general readers views may be but i write it out of a want to understand and out of care and concern. Thanks!

  11. Sarah April 25, 2018 at 8:19 pm #

    Hey everyone! Just for a moment ask yourself – maybe it’s true, she had a real encounter with Jesus and her conversion is truly a product of realizing Jesus truly is One with the Father- I had a similar experience a few years ago and know deep in my heart that Jesus is not just a man or a teacher but the Son of God who died and rose again !

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar..,.

    God bless you!

  12. Raphael May 3, 2018 at 6:39 am #

    Doreen has always been christian, this is obvious. She states “Paradise Lost is a novel, not biblical”, which is a clear implication that ‘the Bible’ (or all 1500+ versions) is ‘the word of God’; even though written and rewritten by humans over 1500 times, is a Christian notion.

  13. Steven May 7, 2018 at 2:11 am #

    Doreen’s path is her own and not for people people to judge by picking parts of it they don’t like …
    Regardless the gift of psychic angel and Jesus connections remains and will continue despite how many teachers of it alter they’re life course.
    Doreen has served you all well who were students of her gift and now she made a life change to teach other students so be thankful .
    Continue to learn what it is you seek whether it’s angel connections or other and find it from whoever teaches it for however long you wish to learn it and let no one persecute you for it .

    Cheers

  14. Maureen May 7, 2018 at 8:27 pm #

    Rick Warren in a “Purpose Driven Life” said something to the effect that Christianity is a way of life, not a religion and that has resonated with me ever since. Thank you Dr Lesley for your explanations about the developments in Dr Doreen Virtue’s life and the co-existence of Christianity and New Age concepts as well-your explanation resonated with me as well.

  15. My thoughts May 17, 2018 at 9:04 am #

    I’ve never trusted her. She’s always looked like a nutcase, a child of abuse and a whack job.Intuitively, that’s a no from me. I’ve never read any of her books don’t know who she is and where is “the infamous video”??? I only know her from entering psychic bookstores and hers being on display and then her ads in the local psychic bookstore trade free papers. Never saw her on Oprah.

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